By Steve Prokopy

To simply classify Terry Notary as an Actor doesn’t begin to do him justice. Many of the titles he holds on movie sets are so unique that it’s entirely possible they were invented just for the work he does in teaching other actors about the very specific movement of whatever animal or creature they may be playing. At times, he is a movement choreographer, with a specialty in training actors how to move like primates (in the recent PLANET OF THE APES trilogy, for example, in which he also plays the character Rocket opposite Andy Serkis’ Caesar). But Notary also creates and teaches movement of fantasy characters as well, in such movies as THE HOBBIT franchise, HOW THE GRINCH STOLE CHRISTMAS, AVATAR, ATTACK THE BLOCK, and WARCRAFT.

As a performer, along with Serkis, Notary is considered one of the greatest performance-capture actors working today, having been King Kong in the recent KONG: SKULL ISLAND. He’s set to appear in such photo-realistic animated works as the Jon Favreau-directed THE LION KING and as two characters (including Teen Groot) in the upcoming AVENGERS: INFINITY WAR.

But his singular performance in writer-director Ruben (FORECE MAJEURE) Östlund’s latest THE SQUARE is something quite different, while still playing to Notary’s strengths. In it, he plays an artist named Oleg. who performance-based museum pieces include oversized video screens of him looking right at camera while making aggressive, often unnerving primate faces. When various conversations take place in the room where these screens are featured, it’s impossible to look anywhere but at him.

In a deliberately provocative sequence, Oleg is brought in by the museum owners to a fundraising dinner to prowl around in his ape-like persona to intimidate and sometimes harass the wealthy donors, including one played memorably by Dominic West. Notary work in this sequence is electric, terrifying, bordering on dangerous. But it’s so singular and unforgettable a moment that an image from the scene is featured on the poster for THE SQUARE. It’s also one of the only times Notary’s face and body have appeared on screen, unobscured by special effects.

We sat down with Notary recently to discuss his work in THE SQUARE, as well as his process with training other actors in movement and the way in which he inhabits the various animals and creatures he has played over the years.

Question: When Ruben Östlund comes to you and says that he's making this film about the art world and wants to include you, were you confused?

Terry Notary: [laughs] A little bit, yes. He called me up and said, "My name is Ruben Östlund." I was like, "I know that name. Why do I know that name?" And then he said, "I've done FORCE MAJEURE.” And then of course, I was like “Okay”—it got my attention. And then he said "I want you to potentially be in my film. It's going to be a satire on the art world; we're going to poke fun at it." And I thought "That's a great idea. We can do that.” So that's how it started off.

Question: Did he give you examples of works in the art world that were similar to what it is you're doing in the film? You obviously have the big centerpiece sequence that everybody is talking about. But I was actually made more uncomfortable by the video screen with your scowling face on it. It's in the background of a few scenes, like some type of god is judging you.

TN: Yes, like God is looking into you. We shot that installation piece on the first day when we were rehearsing. We had a rehearsal day in the ballroom with all of the tables, no people were there yet and there were no tablecloths, no chairs, and we blocked out what we thought would be a good starting point. I knew I was going to come in and I thought "How can we soften them up, win their hearts, gang up on one person in the group, so they feel like they're invisible, and then turn on them and pick on the next one?" So, they’re like "Oh my god, I'm next."

You're a spectator and you're removed at first and feel like you're safe in the herd, and then all of a sudden, the tables turn and you're being hunted. So it's like “This is not fun for me now because now I need to hide.” And it was basically exposing that nature that we have, that ability to be a spectator in life rather than a participant, and we wanted to bring that to the forefront so that people felt like they had to engage. What happened was organic and real, and they got scared for real because we didn't know what we were going to do.

Question: Did Ruben tell the actors and extras what was going to happen?

TN: A little bit.

Question: Dominic West must have known.

TN: Yeah, Dominic knew. Ruben said, "You need to chase the alpha male out of the room.” So for the first day, we did the rehearsal, we go through, we block, we go "We're going to win their hearts and gang up on the alpha male. I'm going to become the alpha male by chasing him out." And by that time, it's starting to get a little bit serious. Then I'm turning on them, and what I wanted to do was trick them into liking me. It was like what a bully would do, right? Or a politician or someone who wants to get you on their side, but they're really pretending to be something to support. They’re not giving you anything. So I wasn't giving them anything; I was taking.

You can give, you can reciprocate with energy and push. We're made up of energy, right? So, when you are having a conversation, you are giving energy and receiving energy. It's like breathing, right? Well, I wanted this character to, on the surface, have this appeal, but not be giving something, so it wasn't like you felt safe ever or comfortable. I've witnessed that in people where they’re smiling, but there's something wrong about it, and I can't put my finger on it. I just don't feel good, I don't feel right, and those people tend to have a lot of power. They can influence people and they can push them around and bully them. And I wanted to do that, I wanted to soften the butter up, and then be able to turn on them and show them how weak they were really, and how fear stops us from actually doing what is innately right, which is stopping me from attacking this other person, this girl.

Oleg uses this ape character as a vehicle to be a bully; it's an excuse. If I came in there as a guy just yelling and screaming, they would have judged me, they would have categorized me as a bully, but I didn't want to be definable so that they were off kilter. You always keep them guessing, and then you can have the power of the group. And then when it turns and they go, "Oh my god, I don't like this character anymore,” then it was about picking the people in the room that didn't want to be picked. They were all extras. Ruben didn't tell me that they were actually high-echelon people in the art world. They were the top.

Question: In real life they are? 

TN: In real life, they are billionaire donors, gallery owners, famous photographers, actors, singers, they were the crème de la crème and they all wanted to be in his movie. So he's like, "Come to this banquet. It's going to be great. You get to sit and watch this performance for three days,” and they were all game. I thought we were going to lose people after the first day, because we didn't know what we were going to do. 

Question: How many times did you shoot that though? After the first time, the surprise is gone.

TN: No, because I tried to make it different every time. I would go to a different person and do something different. So I never repeated something until we started blocking out what was really working, and then we'd only do that. I would only pick that person maybe twice, so it was fresh, and I would come around on a different side of them or I would pretend like I wasn't going to go to them and then go to them again. There were people in the audience that actually came up to me and said, "You can pick me. I'm fine with it." And I knew that they had something planned in their head and I thought, "That's going to be terrible,” because I don't want to have anything planned. I don't want to know what I'm going to do because it won't work, and we won't have that organic reaction and I won't be surprising myself. 

Question: What's amazing about the moment is that what stars out as a performance art piece about your behavior turns into a provocative works bout the crowd’s reaction. It's about the unknown and that fear.

TN: Right, they become the animals. They become the beasts. They become what I was, and so you basically get them to look at themselves for how we behave. How is our behavior? Why do we behave like this? Why don't we just say something right away? And I think it's pertinent to the times right now, with all of the things that are going on today. I think it's something that is pertinent because I feel like we have been complacent and we are settling in to this spectator position. We can watch things and be removed and think “That's that, but that's not me.” But really it is. That's what I think was the message that we wanted to get across with this scene. If Oleg spoke, I would have said “How far do I have to go to get you guys off your ass? I have to nearly kill this woman. Okay, if that's how far we have to go, then that's where we're going to go,” and then it goes to that breaking point.

It was a fun shoot because Ruben is such a genius in his direction that he doesn't get in the way but he knows where he wants to end. He knows where he wants to go, but he doesn't get in the way of the process of things happening how they should unfold without us knowing how it's going to happen. He said, ”You have to chase Dominic out of the room, and I want you to exit through these tables. This is going to be your exit point, and I want to go up out on the balcony." That was it. So I met him that day—“Hi Dominic. I love your work. I'm a big fan. I'm going to chase you out of the room”—and we didn't really know each other and we didn't think about it, we didn't talk about it, we didn't rehearse it. That is one of the things that is Ruben's strong point—he allows things that he couldn't think of, that I couldn't think of, Dominic couldn't think of to happen, and he shoots it like shooting real-life episodes.

He's like a child in the way he sees things. He has this fresh, comedic, lighthearted way of laughing at himself, at humanity and how we behave. So there's a fresh way of looking at it. It's not a browbeating way of saying, "We behave like this and look at how we are." It's more like, "Aren't we silly? Isn't it crazy? Look at us. Can you believe this?" He doesn't say, for example, “Put the napkin on his head.” I didn't know we were going to do that. I saw the napkin and I thought, "I'm going to put it on his head like a hat." And if he would have told me to put the napkin on his head, it would have not have worked. It’s about always coming to it, and for me as an actor, that was my biggest challenge, to go into the room each time without knowing what was going to happen, without trying to do anything, but knowing that I had to go to that table and that I had to accomplish that goal, and that goal was going to get accomplished however long it took. It was about letting things happen, letting the moments unfold in time.

When you work with Ruben, you get that from him right away. You get the fact that he's not hurrying you to hit the end mark. He's not saying, "Let's pace it up." He's always loving the tension that builds into the moment of release, of the action, of the initiation. I call it the drawing of the bow when I work with actors. It's about the drawing of the bow. It's about the intention that you have and the focus, and the draw, draw, draw, draw, draw, draw, draw—and you're doing action through that draw—but when you shoot the arrow, it's over. So relish in those moments of intention. 

And that is what he loves, and he giggles behind the monitor and you know to just keep going, and when you're in it, you just allow yourself to continue to let it to happen. That was my challenge, to not go "This is working,” because as soon as I identify with it and define what's happening, it's over. The moment is over. So I have to embrace the fear and let the fear propel into these moments that allow you to widen your peripheral and to listen and to really react to things, every little thing. If you have a goal in mind too much, you'll miss out on the beauty that is happening around, the organic things that are happening. So you have to be a receiver of everything, a listener, and then you can react. 

Question: Was this idea of letting instinct take over, with only a vague concept of where a take was going, was this the deepest you've ever gone as an actor? 

TN: I do the same work in the performance capture suits when I'm working on characters, you just don't get to see it as me. 

Question: But because you had that freedom to do whatever it is you felt like doing in the moment, that probably isn't the same as the performance capture, which is more controlled. 

TN: Right, it is a little more controlled. But I still try to tap into those things, and when I work with actors, I work on these specific things where you don't come in with a preconceived notion of what's going to happen. If you do, it's going to be a line delivered, and it's going to work if you're pretty enough. But when you start jamming on the other stuff and the dialogue, the objective is going to happen and you just wait for it. That’s the scariest thing is waiting because you feel like, "Oh my god, something's got to happen!” And if you think that, it's over. But if you trust it and embrace that reality and you just go, "There it is, I'm going in,” it takes over and you become a vehicle of what's happening. 

Question: I have to imagine that with the actors who genuinely enjoy challenging themselves as performers, getting to learn about animal behavior and movement from you has to be one of the greatest things they've ever been allowed to do. 

TN: It is a incredible. With the APES films, for example, when you are becoming an Ape, the first thing they do when they come in is they go, "What do I do? How do I do it? I've been working on it." No, no, no. “You haven't been working on it, have you? Please don't say you've been working on it because we're going to remove all of that right now.” So we take a day, and they don't even get to be an Ape for a whole day. They just sit and breathe and open up, and we create a blank slate, and they're like, "Okay, I think I'm getting it." And we go into this place where you drop in and you widen your peripheral and you open up, you become like a child, you forget everything you know, and you become a receiver and a giver. So we emit and we receive, and you need to expand the vehicle of expression.

I call it the soft mind/body connection. When you allow the mind to sit and hammock and allow it to become part of your body, you open up to this place where you can see everything all at once, and you can hear and feel everything all at once, rather than this narrowed peripheral where I know I'm going to have to get something. That's good too, but you've got to have the expanse and then the narrow. I call it the range of expression, and when you know how to play that instrument really wide, and then narrow and bring it in, width and narrow, and then go back into your deep self, or down into your gut and think and talk from here, you can utilize those tools and go different places. So rather than thinking of yourself as a singular plane that is being captured, your energies are seen and felt through the camera. 

Question: Teaching actors this is as much about learning new behavior as it is unlearning behavior that they've had their whole lives. 

TN: Exactly. Your body is a blueprint of your life. So you are a product of your dramas, your successes, and what you have built yourself to become, your social identity, your socially conditioned successful self for this culture and society that we live in. So we become a product of our past. When you can identify with the fear, which is a big thing we tap into, it becomes your best friend and your worst enemy, because it's the fuel that propels you into things if you embrace it, and it's also the thing that will stop you and hold you back and make you look like crap if you let it. You can't fight fear, you have to embrace it, and then it extinguishes the power of it and becomes something that you can use. So I always say to actors, "Embrace the fear and use it to propel you into the action and into your intentions.”

Tension is the worst thing, unless it's pertinent to the character. So when you find out what's innately happening in you, then you can go, ”Oh my God, I'm doing that again." That's why some actors have played the same character in seven or eight movies, because they're playing themselves. But if they can identify with all of those things that are themselves, they can bring in the tensions, the traumas, the past histories, the things that are right for the character. It's a very intense process and a very intimate one as well, so it's not like I can work with a group. I can only work with a group after I've worked one-on-one for a couple of weeks with each of these people, and then if we do a group ensemble, everybody is so dialed in, and they know themselves better as actors. 

Question: In your mind and process, what is the difference between playing Kong, who is this icon, versus playing Rocket. Some people probably think “They're both apes, so it's the same thing.” But they're two very different characters. 

TN: Totally different. Well, when I was playing Kong, I was playing a 14-year-old boy who had never had an adolescent growth and he was saddled with this responsibility and this weight and this burden to protect. He was pretty remorseful inside and depressed, and it was the beginning of this coming out of this boy and starting to wake up again through this experience. With Rocket, he had a lot of guilt from his past because of just how he was, and when he became smart, he was able to look back at himself and go, "What a jerk I was." And so his whole life is about servitude and making up for the past and doing what's right. And he's found that through Caesar. He follows him like a religious figure, like a prophet. So I was basically working on my Catholic upbringing when I'm working with that character [laughs]. So it's about repentance and making up for things—a lot of guilt in him, but that guilt is his fuel. 

Question: I want to ask you about a couple of things you have coming up. I read that you had done some second unit directing on Andy Serkis’ THE JUNGLE BOOK. How was that for you? 

TN: It was great. Andy is a dear, dear friend. He wanted me to come in and second unit direct the Cold Lair sequence with all of the monkeys. It's very dark, and I've seen the sequence and it turned out fantastic. I'm really excited to see Andy's take on it. It's going to be much darker, more in line with the original book. Andy has such a heart. He is such a true, genuine leader that falling into that directing role was just like stepping into the same shoes. 

Question: I know that you probably can't talk about it, but I read that you are doing some stuff on the new AVENGERS films. 

TN: Yes. 

Question: I think a teenager’s behavior may be the hardest creature you’ve ever attempting capture. Can you say anything about your take on the Teen Groot character? 

TN: I can't yet, but I am having so much fun with it, and he's got a great arc in it, and he's siding with these... He's got a mentor in the film, and he really gets to look up to this guy and find himself through this person. That's all I can really say, but he is fun to play, he really is. 

Question: I know in the GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY film, they had a stand-in for Groot, but he wasn’t a motion-capture character. Is this the first time they've done something like this for Groot? 

TN: I think so. It's very good because when you're reacting and interacting with all of these characters, you're there, you're a real character, and it's fun. He says three words, but they mean a lot.

Question: I also heard you play a villain [named Cull Obsidian], who I think is a part of the Thanos army, maybe even his son. 

TN: Yes. I wish I could talk about it, but it's going to be very good. We're shooting more next week. We're going to do a whole bunch on him next week, but he has been a big part of the whole thing. We've been shooting for nine months already, we have three more months. The films are the biggest thing I've ever been on. There are like 50 movie stars on these movies. It's crazy. Every time you come in, there's 10 movie stars sitting around having a conversation. But we filmed the first one. The first one is done filming. They're in full editing mode. Now we're finishing up the second one. 

I think they'll have a little bit more time to edit the second one. And the Russo Brothers are just fantastic. It's such a well-oiled machine, the Marvel world. They do a really job of casting a great crew. And there's just no prima donnas, and everyone just has such a great way of working together, and the Russo Brothers are just so on it, and they know what they want. We don't feel like we're in a hurry, so there's time to flesh out the scenes and make them great and not move on until you've got it. I don't think there will every be a movie like this. I can't imagine it, this many stars in a movie every again, really. It’s an honor to be a part of it. 

Question: Andy Serkis came at this motion-capture thing from being an actor first; it just happened that there was a character he had to play where he had to do this, and it turned out he was very good at it. You came at it more from the athletic side, the acrobatic side. As an actor, are you still learning? Are you still watching other people do their thing and saying, "Oh, that's an interesting take on that”?

TN: Oh, god yes. It's amazing, and I learn so much every time I work somebody. I mean, I'm so honored to be able to work with actors like Josh Brolin and Mark Ruffalo, and the list goes on and on. When I'm working with them and coaching them through it, it's a collaborative jam. It's like being musicians. You just jam on stuff and, "Oh yeah, yeah that was cool. Let's try that. That's great. Do this, do this. More, more, more. Whoa, what was that? That was a mistake, but it was great." Allowing mistakes to happen is the best thing in the world because then you get the gems. But I learn more than I teach every single time and I can apply that to my own stuff that I do.

Question: There’s nothing wrong with stealing from the best. It was great to meet you. Thanks.

TN: Awesome. It was really nice to meet you. Great talk. Cheers.

Steve Prokopy is the chief film critic for the Chicago-based arts outlet Third Coast Review (www.ThirdCoastReview.com).

THE SQUARE is Now Playing at the Music Box. CLICK HERE for Showtimes & Advance Tickets.