by Steven Prokopy
When James Franco won the 2017 IFP Gotham Award for Best Actor in THE DISASTER ARTIST (which he also directed), he thanked “the incredible writers Scott Neustadter and Michael H. Weber, who do love stories better than anyone, and, if anything, this is a love story.” And it’s because the screenwriters approached adapting the memoir by THE ROOM actor Greg Sestero and Tom Bissell as the story of a great Hollywood friendship and not simply as a means to poke fun of THE ROOM’s creator—actor-writer-director-producer Tommy Wiseau—that it has been winning over audiences both addicted to the cult favorite and those who have never seen the glorious slice of horrible.
Neustadter and Weber began their successful professional pairing in 2009 with their original screenplay (500) DAYS OF SUMMER, but they soon followed with a string of successful adaptations of young adult bestsellers, such as THE SPECTACULAR NOW, THE FAULT IN OUR STARS, and PAPER TOWNS. Earlier in 2017, they had a hand in the Netflix original film OUR SOULS AT NIGHT, which re-teamed (in yet another love story) Robert Redford and Jane Fonda; and we’ll see more from them in 2018, having done work on adapting Maria Semple’s novel WHERE’D YOU GO, BERNADETTE, directed by Richard Linklater.
With THE DISASTER ARIST, Neustadter and Weber (neither of which had seen THE ROOM when they booked the gig) sought out some of the deeper theme’s of Sestero’s story, while also giving fans plenty of familiar moments from the film to laugh and get excited about. They saw this as the tale of dreamers and artists whose vision and drive were so strong that nothing could stop them from making this movie. Not really known for being joke writers, the pair pushed their friendship story and let the book—as well as a richly funny cast that includes Seth Rogen, Paul Scheer, Dave Franco, Alison Brie, Ari Graynor, Nathan Fielder, and Zac Efron—fill in many of the film’s most hilarious moments.
Combining all of that with James Franco scarily accurate portrayal of Wiseau and you get one of the funniest films of the year, and one of the most moving portraits of an artist in existential crisis who is also trying not to be the villain in his own life story. Neustadter and Weber were at the Music Box Theatre on opening day of THE DISASTER ARIST in Chicago to do a Q&A after a sold-out screening of the film. We had a chance to sit down with them before the show to talk about getting recruited to tell this epic tale of friendship and creative ambition.
Scott Neustadter: We rarely get to travel like this, so this is fun for us.
Question: I know, I'm excited to meet you guys. In the last couple years, I’ve tried to seek out more screenwriters to interview, but it’s not always easy. Full disclosure: this is the only movie I've cared about for like the last two years. When you two were hired, that was actually my first indication that this was a “real Hollywood movie,” as Tommy would say. When I heard James Franco was involved, I wasn’t sure this would be a movie that would ever play in theaters. But when I heard you guys were on board, I thought, "They don't sign on to do things that people don't see."
SN: [laughs] Franco was always the wild card. We were like “Is this going to be another one of those movies that no one ever gets their hands on?” But when we talked to him, it was clear that everyone was really committed and wanted to make it and do it properly.
MW: All the things we worried about, none of them came to pass. Franco was so committed, not just in terms of his performance, but he was present. He was accessible, he was a team player. He also protected the script because we've been in situations where…some directors view the script as this thing to get them to production and then they do what I want. The script is just a thing to get executives to say yes so then they can be left alone, and Franco walked that really great line on set of protecting the script but also allowing the actors to explore a little bit but staying within the framework. He describes it as putting up bumpers, so they can explore a little but like “Let's make sure we know what the scene is about.” So it's really, in some ways, interesting because there’s not a lot of improv.
SN: He probably didn’t have many bumpers on THE INTERVIEW.
[Everybody laughs]
MW: Right, exactly. But also, that's probably why they came to us. They could've hired comedy writers for this. We don't think of ourselves as comedy writers—it takes us all a day to write one joke—but they realized this was much more about the relationship than it was about the humor.
Question: The other night, Franco said you two do love stories better than anyone.
SN: He's got to be wrong [laughs].
Question: How did you get involved? Did you have any history with this movie at all?
SN: None. In fact, we met working in New York, and our first trip to L.A. was together just to visit, and we saw the billboard in probably ’03 or ’04.
MW: We didn't know it was a movie.
SN: It had a phone number on it. There were no smartphones, it's not like we could've looked it up. We were like "What the fuck is that?”
MW: Yeah, it didn't look like a movie, but it wasn't a rock concert. It was just this bizarre thing, and I didn't know what they were selling because there's the number. We didn't Google it, we never called the number, and then when we got Greg's book, we were like, "That's nice of the Franco-Rogen gang to think of us for something, but we're not funny.” And we started reading it, and it was like, we love old Hollywood stories anyway, but I put the book down after a couple of chapters and said, “I better watch [THE ROOM] now.”
SN: Didn't you watch it in bed, and your wife rolled over?
MW: Yeah, on my laptop. And she was next to me reading whatever she was reading, and she'd look over and be like, "What is that?" I'm like, "I don't know." And then she looked up again and was like, "Did you start it over?” And I'd say “No, the same sex scene is back!” She thought I was watching porn. She's like, "What're you doing watching porn?"
MW: It was kind of gross porn.
SN: We didn't tell Franco and Rogen this, but by design I held off watching THE ROOM. The book is so great, it's a tribute to the book that you can understand so much of THE ROOM without even seeing it, and I didn't watch THE ROOM until after we finished the first draft. We knew the movie was going to play for THE ROOM super-fans, and they are passionate, but that is a small subsection of movie culture. THE DISASTER ARTIST had to play for the vast majority of people who've never even heard of THE ROOM. So it had to play as this underdog story of a friendship and dreamers, so it was better that I waited so that we didn't get too bogged down in THE ROOM DETAILS. We had the right amount of Easter eggs and nods to the fans, but at the same time, it plays for everyone.
MW: We didn't think it was a popular a movie. We watch a lot of movies and we had never seen it. The first conversations I had with anybody were like, "Wait, that movie won a bunch of Oscars a couple of years ago.” They all thought it was the Brie Larson movie [ROOM]. If pre-knowledge of this movie was required, I don't know that we'd have thought that we could ever get this made.
SN: It’s crazy that A24 released ROOM and THE DISASTER ARTIST, and when ROOM was coming out, they had that great social media thing they blasted out everywhere—it was a marquee from a theater somewhere that said "ROOM, not to be confused with THE ROOM."
MW: I have an idea: Franco should recreate Jacob Tremblay from ROOM, right? They should do a scene with Franco as Tremblay, and Dave Franco could be Brie. That'd be amazing.
[Everybody laughs]
Question: People I know who have complained about certain questions about Tommy not being answered, I feel the need to remind them that THE DISASTER ARTIST is actually Greg’s story, told from his perspective.
MW: That was always the POV. It was one of those things where, if you tell this movie through Tommy's eyes then that movie looks like THE ROOM. So you have to tell it from an entry point that we can relate to and is accessible, and Greg is this perfect everyman guy and we can all relate to the dream that he had. We can all relate to somebody who wanted to make something and be something, who hooked his wagon to this guy that had the means and the confidence and all the things that he was lacking, and this was the result and.
The fact that it's a movie about a movie can turn people off, but the movie to us was always just the thing they do. If they wanted to create an app or start a restaurant or whatever, it could be that thing. What we're really following is these two guys. Is this friendship going to survive when their dreams start coming true?
Question: I love the themes of artistic expression, and can you really fail as an artist if, for example, the movie you made is exactly the movie you wanted to make? Is THE ROOM a failure if it’s exactly what Tommy saw in his head?
SN: In a way, he's a true author. It’s funny, people think of, for example, Spielberg as the great director of our generation, and his movies are his vision, but he works with the best DPs, and I guarantee you Janusz Kaminski has thoughts on where to put the camera, and they collaborate. But Tommy Wiseau made all of the creative decisions across the board. This is purely his vision in a way that you don't see with other filmmakers.
Question: It’s also fascinating to see Tommy as this bundle of insecurities. Greg is too, but like a normal person is, but Tommy is and he's the guy in charge.
SN: But he can turn it off. He has this remarkable skill where the insecurities that are so there can just disappear. If somebody gives you a note, if somebody gives you a suggestion, you hear it as criticism and you can't do it. Even if it’s your best friend, even if it's Greg saying, "Well maybe this instead?” “Nope. This what we're doing; we're doing it this way.” I wish I had a little more of that.
Question: You present Tommy as being truly terrified of being the villain in his own life movie, being seen as the villain to the rest of the world. And he says that a couple of times: ”I'm not the villain. I don't want to be the villain.” He gets called Frankenstein a couple of times.
MW: Look at that picture [points to a poster of THE ROOM on the wall]. He's making that face; that's not a happy-go-lucky, everyman, guy-next-door face. There’s an interesting power thing there, and he thinks that's accessible, “all-American guy.” Where does that idea come from? Why is it like that?
SN: But what's interesting is when Tommy talks about THE ROOM now, he says if you want it to be a comedy, come and laugh. If you want it to be a drama, come and cry. He presents the movie as multi-faceted, and we wanted to present the man as multi-faceted. There is a version of this story that's more like BORAT, and it's just a wacky character, but sad Tommy was always our favorite thing, and it's interesting because you never see sad Borat. Borat has one speed.
MW: You do. There's some good, sad Borat, actually.
SN: When?
MW: When he's walking around after he's had his heart broken.
Question: I actually remember this in the movie.
MW: It was a re-shoot, but it was good. There’s so much pressure on us deciding is it good or is it bad? They made it the worst movie, and we talked about it even with our producers and with James—should we tease that maybe it's going to turn out good? And what we realized is that those things do not matter, because what's good to someone isn't good to someone else. An opinion is an opinion, but the thing you create, you made that happen, and that's the thing that makes it special. And if something is being watched and talked about 15 years later, how could you say that's bad? The movie came out the same weekend as CHARLIE’S ANGELS 2, and nobody's talking about that movie. And I'd watch THE ROOM again before I watched that movie. It's all in the eye of the beholder.
Question: This is a question that that’s been burning a hole in my brain since I saw the work-in-progress premiere at SXSW: Is there is a full-length remake of THE ROOM as directed by James Franco?
MW: We only have like 30-40 percent, but it’s more than was in [the final cut], and it's a tribute to Franco. We knew we needed some footage during the premiere sequence that you see on the screen. And it was a tribute to Franco because we were so ahead of schedule, so under budget, so on top of things that the carrot for him—because we all loved doing these recreations but Franco the most—was that because we were so ahead of schedule on everything, we constantly had extra time to shoot those. “Oh, we have two hours? Let's do another recreation.” So they would be squeezed in before lunch or before the end of the day if we had extra time because Franco was so on top of things. We didn't need as much as we ultimately got. We got it because we loved it and we got it because Franco was so on top of things.
SN: There are some non-THE ROOM stuff that he shot too that hopefully will make a DVD extra that's incredible because. Greg goes off and does RETRO PUPPET MASTER, and they shot some of that. And then there was the commercial that Tommy makes to get into SAG. That was the first scene they shot, and all that exists somewhere. I hope people do get a chance to see it.
Question: How much did you actually consult with Greg?
MW: We've had different relationships with authors for all of our adaptations, and Greg is great. He and Tom Bissell as well, who we did some content with, were great about letting us write the best movie.
SN: One thing we always do is we keep them away from the draft, but we want them to read it and weigh in afterwards, and if we have questions, they were always very accessible, and we could email and say, "Hey, is this something?" Which I don't believe we had to do because the book was so clear.
MW: We've been lucky that we've had a track record of working with authors who've been team players in terms of understanding that we have to do some crafting but we will not betray the spirit of the book, and Greg and Tom totally got that without us ever even saying it. They were great, and we couldn't ask for better authors in terms of partners on this.
SN: And working on a true story was cool because there's accountability; you're going run into these people. They’re around.
Question: This is your first true story. Was it weird knowing that the people being portrayed are going to see it?
SN: It was great. Tommy we were always thinking that to be truthful is going to potentially be hurtful at times, but he was great about it, and we never really had an issue. He never once said to us "I wish you didn't do that.”
MW: I also thought we were a little mindful of certain people in a weird way. Juliette [Danielle], who plays Lisa, she really takes some abuse from some of the fans during the screenings [of THE ROOM].
SN: She gets the worst of it.
MW: She really does and unfairly, and we wanted to bring some empathy, and Ari spoke to the real Juliette. We wanted to make sure that you know that this was a person who went through an ordeal making this movie and is deserving of a little more empathy than she gets at some of the fan screenings.
Question: The shooting of the love scene is that moment for me when you're like, "Holy crap, he's humiliating her. This is abuse.”
MW: “Open set. Not closed set.”
SN: Especially with what's in the conversation right now.
Question: When I saw that scene in March, the audience thought it was hilarious. When I watch it now, it’s so much more uncomfortable.
SN: Which is why everybody reacts the way they react. And it's a big moment in the relationship between Greg and Tommy. Greg says “You are going too far. This is not okay.” And Tommy fights back and says, ”Here’s what I'm doing and here’s why I'm doing it; it's not coming from like a sex place, it's coming from the idea that director as dictator, this is what Hitchcock does.”
Question: And he does it all naked.
MW: Well that's where Franco took the biggest risks; it makes the other actors feel comfortable taking risks too.
Question: I want to ask about the testimonials at the beginning, and I think I understand why they're there, but tell me why you think they're important.
MW: We actually scripted testimonials in our first draft, because we wanted to give context that this is a real thing. We wanted to give context that this is a cool thing.
SN: One percent knew that.
MW: We wanted to say that tastemakers know and love this movie. Because there's also a version of testimonials that's just random fans. But we wanted it clear that people who love movies love this movie. I don't know if the cut you saw in Austin had them.
Question: No, it absolutely did.
MW: Okay, but we had a test screening some months earlier that didn't have them, and audiences who didn't know THE ROOM were confused if it was a real movie.
SN: They thought that it was BORAT. They though that it was James and Seth coming up with a funny character and doing this whole thing, and they would ask questions of like, “Why that accent? Why would you do tell this?” And nobody understood it, and even when you say “Based on a true story,” apparently that doesn't have the meaning anymore that it used to. Now you can say that even if it isn't, like in horror movies you can say "Based on a true story" or "Inspired by…,” and you're lying. But this was very much a real thing, so in order to sell that harder we thought the testimonials would be giving good cultural context: “No, no, this thing exists.” And obviously, the side-by-sides at the end, people go "Oh my god.” If you don't realize at that point, then we probably screwed up.
Question: You can write the best script in the world, but when you put it in the hands of actors, they can change so much. I don't think people really believe that there's all this awards talk about what James is doing with this performance, but he absolutely floored me. You were on the set the whole time, right?
SN: And even at the table read beforehand, just hearing him do that voice—and by the way, that was really when we knew we could lead in on the drama, because every time he opened his mouth, it was hilarious. Everybody was cracking up, and even when he wasn't saying something that was funny, it was funny. So we knew we'd be covered on that front.
MW: But I remember being moved by sad Tommy on set watching those scenes, and you were laughing but also felt really bad for him. Just watching James's performance every day and Dave too because Dave is that proxy for the audience, so we have to experience that rollercoaster of Tommy via Dave, and he nails that in a way that we can access Tommy through him.
Question: I've interviewed Dave a couple of times in the last two years about other films, but I always bombard him with questions about THE DISASTER ARTIST. Although it is funny to see him play Greg, who is so much taller.
MW: [laughs] I feel like the height thing, it doesn't matter to anyone that doesn't know, and I got over it quickly because Tommy's personality is so big that he should be the taller one. He should be the bigger one because his personality is so outsized, so it never bothered me. After the first day, I was like "Okay, it just makes sense."
Question: I know you guys have written this next Linklater film or had a hand in it in some way.
SN: Yeah, we adapted the book, and I'm sure he did his own thing with it but we'll see.
MW: It was cool to even be first writers in on that. We haven't seen it yet but we're really excited to see it.
Question: What else are you working on currently, could you say?
SN: We adapted a book called THE ROSIE PROJECT, which we're hoping to get cast soon; we've had a lot of cool people circling.
MW: Do you know this movie, THE BEAUTY INSIDE? It's a Korean film from a couple years ago, and we're doing our version of it for Emilia Clarke. We just turned in our first draft of that. And now we're about to adapt this acclaimed World War II novel called SALT TO THE SEA, and it's about refugees at the tail end of the war. It’s about the people who are normally in the background of most movies—it’s not about politicians, it's not about generals and soldiers—it’s about the people who usually get swept up in these things and are forgotten about, and this story centers on them. It’s all loosely based on some historical elements that have never been told before, and there's a love story at the heart of it, so it's a mix of some stuff we like to do and some we've never done before.
Question: Thank you both so much. It was great to meet you.
MW: So fun to meet you too. Thank you.